God Hates Fags (homosexuals that is, not cigarettes)
I watched “God Hates Fags”: America’s Most Hated Family In Crisis last night.
I have to say it was very entertaining and educational. Until now, I always thought Christians have calmed down since the Crusade times. (Okay, it might have taken them a few more years since then but let’s not get too technical about it) I mean, so many times I hear people refer to themselves as not religious but raised with ‘Christian values and morals’.
A friend of mine, who wanted her children to get into a state funded Christ Church school (which happen to be good schools from the academic point of view) but is not very religious herself, always said that at least she felt Christianity was quite laid back and civilized compared to some other religions.
I sent her the link to the program.
Of course, you will say this is an exception to the rule. No rational Christian person would claim that “God Hates Fags”! In fact, should God even be familiar with the concept of hate? I thought he was supposed to be a tolerant, loving and forgiving sort of geezer. But that is a very naïve perspective coming from someone who has no proper religious knowledge,whatsoever.
According to the Westboro Baptist Church believers, God is very busy these days, punishing us with wars, soldiers getting killed, children dying in fire accidents, the anti-Christ in the shape and form of Barack Obama, and various other disasters. More importantly, the Phelps invite us all to rejoice in his judgments.
So really, I take it back when I said religious people have an imaginary friend. Because, according to these guys, God clearly is not interested in friendship. He is cruel, unfair and vengeful. He is watching over poor religious people, waiting for them to make a mistake, such as even question his judgments, or get upset by his decisions; so that he could send them to hell where, according to the Phelps, a huge never-dying worm feasts on their flesh.
But let’s just look at this. Okay, these guys come across pretty mad when you watch them happily singing along to the Lady Gaga tunes, replacing the words with hateful messages against the Jews, the Fags and, of course, Obama. But, are their fundamental beliefs really that different from a lot of other strong religious views?
First of all, of course, is the overall hatred of the homosexuals. Does any mainstream religion accept gay people? Just because the Phelps openly shout that fags eat poo (or your babies) does not make the basic idea any different from other, more moderate, more socially acceptable religious views. Gay is bad. God does not like gay. Full stop.
Just because the Phelps disown their daughters as soon as they see any sign of them considering having a boyfriend, does not make them that different from a huge number of Muslim families, where expelling from the family is really not the worst thing that can happen. Unfortunately, the concept of the honor killings is something we all are too familiar with.
And, just because they describe hell in a very eloquent way (quote) “And what will you do when you all land in hell FOR EVER where the worm that eats on you NEVER dies and the fire is NEVER quenched and the smoke of your torment ascends up for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever - never ending” does not mean that the belief in hell is anyhow original.
Finally, the basic concept of not questioning and not wondering, and not ever letting your thoughts “dwell on inappropriate”…isn’t that the basis of any faith in general?
As Oliver Duggan said in the Independent Blogs yesterday....
Finally, a lovely quote from the Phelps themselves for you to enjoy.
“The antichrist is sitting now, in the Whitehouse, the time is SO SHORT - the Lord is coming and this generation is DOOMED! You see the destruction already before your eyes! As filthy america goes down, and The Beast Obama, That Son of Perdition, that Man of Sin gets his power grab on, you will all give over the power of your government to him and when you see that phony façade fall away, and he gets his war on and all your fawning over him turns to great fear, then you can remember these words. “
( from their interview for the Telegraph in feb 09)
And, to finish on a funny note...the Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church video, which made me smile.
Oh my, Michael Moore! I'd say they were taking their life into their hands driving that sodomobile into some of those towns. Live and let live, people! Get over it!
ReplyDeleteEach time I hear things such as "God will punish your for being or for doing whatever", I think God might feel outraged. According to my beliefs, God wants us to be happy, and he wants that so badly that he even gave out his only begotten son and made him experience an awfully painful death to ensure our happiness. How ungrateful can some people be if they don't recognize such HUGE sacrifice, and instead make everybody feel guilty for being or doing whatever.
ReplyDeleteI don't get it either. And I don't think God hates homosexuals.
Never saw the problem with sodomy and all that, it's rather fun? I've always been a huge fan of it, the heterosexual type that is. Personally I don't give a flying fuck what gay people do in their spare time, It is however pretty annoying seeing the attempts at social change by making it 'okay to be gay'. If you're gay, fine, but don't go around prancing like a queen pretending it's completely natural. It's not.
ReplyDeleteAs for the calm christians, what gave you the impression that 'christians' have calmed down in the first place? Is it because they're not hijacking planes and flying them into buildings? Well, 'they' don't have to. The power balance in the world favors the christian states, making the people from these areas blind to their own crimes while upholding a remarkably high moral standard when judging others. That's the definition of a hypocrite, made famous by none other than Jesus Christ himself.
I could explain in more detail but I get the feeling you or most readers here aren't interested in facts, rather they are interested in confirmation of existing ideas, like most if not all other human beings.
@Tricia: Well, this is what freedom of speech is about, right? The Phelps guys feel they can picket the funerals, and Michael Moore feels he should annoy them with the sodomobile. ( what a great word, btw)
ReplyDelete@Gabriela: Ah, I am afraid you are going straight to hell, my friend. :)According to the Phelps guys, of course.
@Kaweh:
a) Dude, pleeease! Way too much information!
b)Not only Christians don't fly planes into buildings, I am afraid. Buddhists are not too famous for that either. Neither do they walk around with bombs attached to them. Everyone uses their own hmm...methods, I guess. May I also point out that another group that does not tend to blow themselves up are the atheists? Just saying... Nothing to do with the balance of power in my opinion.
As for the facts...My dear, if people EVER listened to the facts, religion would seize to exist.
You are aware that the USA is the leading terrorist state in the world right? I mean, if you're so keen on facts and all.
ReplyDeleteIf you frown upon people blowing themselves up, you should frown upon the murder of -millions- of innocent people that have been murdered by the USA, dear.
Also, facts and what people believe have little to do with each other. Even if people actually listened.
@Kaweh: No, I don't see it as "terrorist state", so I guess no, I am not aware of that. :) Even if I think that some of the actions were wrong. But in any case, I don't see what that has to do with me ("frowning" upon is not stong enough) hating the blowing up folk. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING can justify those actions, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThankfully, these anti-gay laws in the U.S. aren't really enforced. Texas was listed on the map in the video as one of the states with these laws, but the mayor of Houston is openly lesbian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annise_Parker
ReplyDeleteTerrorism: 'use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.'
ReplyDeleteThat's terrorism, you can terrorize by blowing yourself up in a bus killing dozens of people or you can terrorize by sending a rocket into a pharmaceutical company in Sudan leading to the estimated deaths of 50.000 - 80.000 mainly young children, due to lack of medication as a result of the factory being destroyed. This was done by Clinton in 1998.
This is one of the -minor- crimes of the USA by the way. There are many more if you're interested. Ask the people of Central-America about American foreign policy, they'll have a thing or two to say about it.
If you consider the bus attack to be terrorism, but the latter not, then you are a first class hypocrite. I'm hoping you have enough moral-fiber to understand this.
@Kaweh: You are forcing me into a serious political debate, whereas I was talking about religion. I am not into politics, don't like any politicians, and would not get into something I know little about.
ReplyDeleteAs for your particular example, there are people who would say Clinton did it on purpose, I suppose? But, of course, there are also people who might argue he did it because of the "alleged use of the factory for the processing of VX nerve agent" and "ties between the owners of the plant and al-Qaeda". Did he deliberately do it to make all those children suffer from the lack of medication? I don’t know, to be honest, but doubt it. Most importantly to me is how do YOU know for a FACT that it was NOT an Al-Qaeda factory?
How am I the one forcing you into a political debate when YOU'RE the one writing a blog which is loaded with (your own) political opinion(s)?
ReplyDeleteYou write a blog on a politically sensitive issue such as this then expect some critical feedback, otherwise you should stick to writing about experiences from within the bubble.
About the Al-Shifa factory, does the burden of proof mean anything to you? If you're going to bomb a place on the pretext that it's for the benefit of mankind or some empty slogan like that, then you have to provide some evidence. If this burden is not met, then your actions are illegal. So far, NO evidence has been found to back up the allegations.
In fact, all the evidence points to the obvious. Namely, that it wasn't used for the creation of chemical weapons, nukes, lethal ponies, or whatever state propaganda would have us believe, but was in stead a regular factory producing medication.
Not even the US government claims that it was used for illegal purposes. If you wish for more evidence then google away, I'm not going to do your research for you.
As for the intention, it's irrelevant. 'A person is responsible for the predictable consequences of their own actions regardless of intent'. That's a truism in law and international law is no different.
I'll give an example: I throw a large rock from a 10 story building into a large tight packed crowd of people. My intention wasn't to kill anyone, I just wanted to get rid of that annoying rock. What do you think I will be tried for in court? That's right, murder. Why? Because the predictable consequence of throwing a large rock into a crowd of people is that some of them are going to die, making me responsible.
Now what are the predictable consequences of destroying a factory plant which is providing an impoverished country with 90% of it's medical supplies? Death, on a very large scale. The exact numbers are unknown because the USA blocked any UN investigations.
Again, this is just one relatively minor crime in the long history of crimes of the USA in cooperation with it's junior client state, Britain.
I don't mean to demonize the USA (the people that is), but the actions of the state are gross crimes unparalleled by any other state in the world. It doesn't differ from other states in this respect, all states would commit crimes if they'd think they could get away with it.
If you genuinely don't want to see more innocent deaths and wish to stop terrorism, there is a really easy way: Stop supporting it.
@Kaweh: "How am I the one forcing you into a political debate when YOU'RE the one writing a blog which is loaded with (your own) political opinion(s)?"
ReplyDeleteReally? I was not thinking it was at all about politics, personally. But I guess, you see what you want to see, everyone does.
Also, if I did not want to publish your comments, I would simply block them. If you don't like me responding or debating at all, I can just let you talk away, and stay quiet. Would that satisfy your principles,and-what was it?- show some "moral fiber" on my behalf?
I like how you completely avoided any of the points that I made and rather chose to reply with some contentless rhetoric.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the blog Barbie, keep looking the other way when people are being murdered in your name, with your support, and live a happily ever after. While replying to comments that are beyond your capacity with 2-3 liners thinking you're being witty.
Self-deception is a bitch, huh?
@ Kaweh
ReplyDeleteTo bomb a factory you don't need to address the burden of proof, just need a plane and a bomb or a ship and a cruise missile. Simple!
And why call the blogger "Barbie"? Are you a sexist, mysogynist dumbfuck? Just asking.
But personal name calling in this easy, lazy, stereotypical way does somewhat clash with your obvious feelings of intellectual (and maybe gender) superiority.
Yours, Ken Doll
@Anonymous (lol, really?)
ReplyDelete1 - Your comment on the burden of proof is void of content, and I see no reason for me to seriously reply to it. It does however reveal how lighthearted you take the murder on numerous innocent people. I suppose If I went around stabbing tens of thousands of children to death you'd make a lighthearted comment on that too.
2 - I called the blogger Barbie because even after being presented with undisputed argument and evidence she refused to admit to the bombing being an atrocious crime and kept defending her tribe, while criticizing the other.
Again, it's interesting to note that you would comment on my use of a single term, but completely ignore the actual content of the discussion. Effectively changing the subject. Soviet education much?
She preferred to stay in her bubble where when the other tribe does something bad it's terrible but when her own tribe does something it must be for the benefit of mankind or something. My tribe only does the right thing and if one of us does something bad it must be either an accident or it was well-intended. Yea, we can read that in the Nazi archives too. That's the easy thing to do, it takes a moral spine to take a critical look at ones own crimes.
I was trying to appeal to the humane side of the blogger by presenting her with evidence that the crimes are a fact, and the propaganda image of us being the good guys (calm christians, are you fucking kidding me?) and the others being bad is very far from the truth. I was naively hoping that once she saw the facts, she would perhaps give a slight damn about the millions of innocents that have died under the banner of such (standard propagandistic) lies.
Alas, I was wrong. In stead I was met with the kind of apathy and ignorance that one would expect from nationalists, jingoists, religious fundamentalists and other sheep-like people. I was under the impression after having read the blog that she would be intelligent enough to understand, good job shattering that image. I'm hoping she can prove me wrong.
The blogger portrayed herself as such a vivid and exaggerated example of a stereotype apolitical housewife who follows the herd without question, that it genuinely made me wonder as to whether I was being trolled. For her sake, I sincerely hope I am.
3 - As for me being lazy, I suggest you scroll up and read some of the actual comments. I'm the one with lengthy posts trying to argue my case as well as I can. While I was only met with contentless rhetoric, which I believe are meant to be witty.
Intellectual superiority? Maybe, maybe not. Either way it has zero relevance. I could also feel superior about my height. Or money. or clothing? Education perhaps? Hair product? Key-chain? No? Oh well...I tried.
Standard insults of 'intellectual superiority' coming of those who feel intellectually inferior are standard.
Accusations of feelings of gender superiority, now that's a new one.
Person X (male) talks to person Y (female), about WWII.
X is a historian, Y is not and on top of that is barely interested in the topic.
X concludes that he knows more about said topic than Y.
Y calls X a sexist.
X concludes that Y is an imbecile who doesn't understand that emancipation is more than just having premarital sex, it also means emancipating oneself intellectually, financially and so on.
Y Disagrees, and in an attempt of psychological relief deceives herself into believing that X is just a sexist and that Y is much smarter regardless of what he's said.
Tadaaaa!
As for calling me dumbfuck. Unlike you I have a spine and don't need to hide my insults by formulating them as a question:
You're a fucking idiot.
Well, that was probably my last post here. I have to say I'm rather disillusioned. This has however inspired me to start my own blog, which will probably be about the peculiarities of human behavior.
Have a nice life Barbie and Ken,
Yours Truly,
Alpha Male
@Kaweh
ReplyDeleteThe big difference between you and me, is that I have a sense of humour and know when and where to get serious.
As does the blogger. You should get your own forum if you want to have serious debates (but I would avoid getting sexist if you do).
One day you might understand that.
Until then, bye bye.
Ken Doll
PS I still think it is shocking that you, with all our "cleverness", still maintain that it it appropriate to resort to nasty, puerile, sexist insults. No better than racism and other forms of bigoted thinking. What do you call black people with whom you disagree? What should I call Moslems because I disagree with a tiny minority of politicised Islamic fascists???
@Kaweh: As someone pointed out in an email to me, you are intelligent, but sadly, do not "have the emotional reserves to hold mature discourse on any subject"
ReplyDeleteYou are not entering a debate. You are lecturing.
That is simply boring, to me personally, and I am not attempting to discuss anything with you not because I am stupid or ignorant, but simply because I can't be bothered.
I am not here to defend my own intelligence, or my morals, or whether I give a damn about thousands of dead people, whatever nationality..Your speech is so full of self-admiration, it is not even funny.
As for you calling me a Barbie... :)))
You can take a boy out of Iran....
@Kaweh
ReplyDeleteTrust me, I am perfectly capable of arguing the points you raise. In fact many of them I would agree with.
I do not feel at all inferior to you, but I like the way you claim that. Nice debating style, you should be a politician.
Just understand that not everyone wants to spend every minute of every day being angry. The world is so fucked up that it would get almost impossible to live each day.
If you are in the UK, get in touch. We could have some interesting discussions. Or go out and watch strippers, after all you think women are inferior and there to be abused.
Yours, Ken Doll BSc, PhD, Non-bigot
@Anonymous: Thank you btw, even though next time let's not get so aggressive. Too much testosterone for such a Barbie blog. :) I am glad this is over though, and we can move on to another topic soon.
ReplyDelete@ Kaweh:I admire your speeches,You should live in Azerbaijan and be the Head of our opposition.I think we really need in such brave young men.Good luck to you.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous: Yes, very easy for all of us to sound brave, isn't it?
ReplyDeletea) from abroad, from one of those western countries opressing the world...
b) behind our computer screens, anonymously.
But yes, as the other guy said here, Kaweh is good with long speeches and should be in politics! we all agree on this! :)
@Anonymous from Azerbaijan.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind words. While I am far from being capable of being the head of any organisation, I am organising protests with other people in the Netherlands for more political freedom in Azerbaijan.
even if we put aside what Kaweh said about politics (which made sense by the way) and go back to the original topic, to me too, gay parades, men on high heels, with smudged lipstick, pink blush on coarse skin... is ugly, pointless. Look everybody I am not a man, I am a woman, no I am gay I am special. No you are not. You just a human being who prefers sex with the same sex as you are. It does not make you special or more beautiful as it says in many songs.
ReplyDeleteWhat's with this coming out of closet thing? Do you have the urge to give your colleages the whole list of people you've slept with? Why would a person sleeping with the same sex should disclose (even take pride in disclosing it and from that date on considering himself a hero) that information???
Everybody are free to do whatever they want in their bedrooms as long as they do not harm anyone or brake the law. But please keep it to yourselves.
Muslim, cristian, atheist, gay, vegetarian... We need to label everything, herd mentality. Just live and let live.
Wasn't planning on commenting on this blog again, but I'm a sucker for agitation. Will try to shortly address the made points, while keeping in mind the following:
ReplyDeleteThat which has been asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without argument.
@Ken
- 'Alleged lack of sense of humor'. Highly subjective, baseless claim. Can't reply.
- 'Nasty, sexist, puerile insults'. Scroll up. Have attempted to provide serious argument, only to be met with apathy and ignorance. Considered 'Barbie' to be a fairly good description of that kind of behavior, whether it's considered insulting is up to the pseudo insulted person.
- 'What do you call black people with who you disagree?' Will attempt to describe them as accurately as possible, usually a name suffices.
- What should I call muslims because I disagree with islamo-fascists?' Would recommend calling them by their names if possible.
@Scary
ReplyDelete- 'Intelligent but lack emotional reserves'. Have attempted to calmly argue my case as objectively as I can, only to be met with indifference. Got frustrated eventually due to blogger's unawareness of her own racist contempt for African muslims.
- 'Not debating, but lecturing'. Debating involves two or more people interacting arguments in an attempt to persuade. When one of the two refuses to argue at all (X) while the other keeps arguing his case(Y), it automatically becomes a lecture. If X is bored because it's a lecture and not a debate, then X should have argued his/her case, transforming it from lecture to debate.
- 'It's boring and that's why I'm not arguing'. You're incapable of winning the argument and thus need to convince yourself you don't continue because it's boring. Suggest googling self-deception.
- 'You're full of self-admiration'. Baseless claim, can't comment.
- 'You're from Iran and thus sexist by definition'. Besides being racist, it's a completely false statement. I've helped organize protests for women's rights at the Iranian embassy, effectively disabling myself from ever being able to visit the country and see my family. What have you done for your country, besides write condescending blogs?
- 'I'm a pork eating atheist'. Great, so am I. The difference between us is that unlike you, I don't feel the need to prance around with it. Desperately trying to be accepted by the new herd, involves ridiculing the previous one. 'I eat pork! I'm not a muslim I swear! I'm one of you guys! Please accept me!'. It's a phenomenon well known and documented especially vivid amongst immigrants from Iran.
Might add that Azerbaijan is the 5th least religious country in the world.
@PlasticFantastic Ken 2
ReplyDelete'I can argue your points, trust me'. Can't in good conscience trust you on that matter without empirical evidence.
'I don't feel inferior to you'. Interesting, your need to flaunt academic titles proves otherwise.
'You should be a politician'. Lawyer will have to suffice I'm afraid.
'Understand no one wants to be angry all the time'. It's difficult to remain calm when confronted with subtle approval of mass-murder. Will not apologize for being human.
'If you're in the UK get in touch'. Might be in the UK as early as next week, due to an exhibition of artifacts.
'Go and watch strippers in the UK'. Besides me trying to avoid whores and whore-like behavior to begin with, I live 30 minutes away from Amsterdam, wouldn't make sense.
'You think women are there to be abused.' Baseless accustion, can only say it's completely false.
If you want to discuss anything further, send me an e-mail.
Yours,
Alpha Male, libertarian socialist.
@Anonymous: Unortunately, this video gets blocked in the UK, so I can't watch it.
ReplyDeleteNot all gay people parade their being special, as you say. They are indeed, trying to live their lives, but still get treated awfully around the world.
How come only 1 out of my 3 posts got through..?
ReplyDelete@Kaweh:
ReplyDeleteI thought you were just very young, naive and passionate, thus these serious, long speeches full of clever official terms you learned from your books. But now, after I saw this comment “unawareness of her own racist contempt for African muslims”...I don’t even know what to think of you.
Because, honestly, where did this even come from? Oh, I see! I questioned whether you knew for a fact that there was no intelligence suggesting that there might have been some connection of the plant to Al-Qaeda. I don’t know if there was. Neither do I know for a fact that there was not! That is all I said. From that alone you label me as racist and full of contempt for African Muslims. I mean, how could I ever win?
As for your personal attacks...already been done and said by a lot of other young nationalists. Especially that I try to fit into my new herd. I don’t see myself belonging to ANY herd.
But anyway, as I said, there is no point having a discussion like this, with someone like you, somewhere like this blog.
You just turned to calling names and being condescending in every single word. Every argument you use is based on some bizarre assumptions you make about people who disagree with you. You believe you are the smartest ass here, you believe you know the facts and nothing and nobody can say anything to you that would change that, right? So why would I bother? If that makes me silly in your eyes, guess what. I can live with that.
PS: I just love how "Ken" was winding you up, and it worked- every single joke went way over your (enormous) head. Priceless.
'I don't belong to any herd'. Again, I suggest you look up the research that's been done on self-deception.
ReplyDeleteAs a writer, you should know that opinions are not just expressed by explicit statements, (X is bad, Y is good etc.) but are often implied. What your position is on the bombings could be deduced that way. I could go into detail, but your apparent incapability and/or disinterest demotivate me from doing so.
'You're condescending'. Oh wow, irony much?
'You think you're smart, know all the facts, are god etc.' No, but I can see why people who know very little might get that impression.
'You didn't get Kens jokes'. I chose to reply to his/her British attempt at humor by discecting what he'd said and systematically arguing against his assumptions. That's how I argue, I don't resort to pseudo witty jokes/insults. A common trait amongst those who are verbally strong, but intellectually weak.
There is indeed no point in having this discussion. Confirmation bias and all that.
This has been fun, I wish you the best of happily ever afters. May your days of being the most powerful chess piece never come to an end.
Yours Truly,
The proles.
PS. 'Official clever terms you learned from your books'. I have to say this made me chuckle. Copy/pasted it and sent it to a few people, they got a good laugh out of it too.
@MikeH: Oh, goodness, it is you! :)
ReplyDeleteThank you for stopping by and leaving a fresh comment, I was getting so bloody bored from the endless obsessive name-calling, I thought I was going to loose the will to live, honestly.
I was thinking the same when I heard that lot planning their move to Israel. After their hateful comments, they will be very welcome there, indeed.
Kaweh, hi! I agree with every single word you said! Never met anyone with such a similar opinion before. I love Orwell (the author)and saw that you blog has the word Orwell in it. Do you mind swaping e-mails and then you can join my blog too. Btw I espcially agree with the balance of power point and suicide bombing. Kamikaze and the Cuban suicide bombings at the beginning of the Cuban Revolution prove the point. Btw for Scary's info Cuban revolutionaries were mainly atheists.
ReplyDeleteAlso many things that are brushed aside as Muslim World issues or Arab World issues are in fact more widespread than that i.e honor crime albeit most cases being from Muslims is also current in quite a few Sikh, Arab Christian and even Hindu families (the latter call it dowry crime though :S.) Same goes for FGM. If it wasly Somalian and Sudanese women undergoing it it would be a Muslim issue. But UNFORTUNATELY many many more women are undergoing it including Peruvian, Mexican and Brazilian Native Americans, Sub-Saharan African non-Muslims and Aborigine women. And as agnostic as I am and as religion annoys me in general I have to admit none of the above practices are in any religious books. So if we want any solutions we have to think beyond religion and think global. Btw whoever said categories suck I kiss their feet :-). IF anyone hates categories and sterotypes it is the biromantic, vegan, polyamorous, anarchist me.
@Anonymous: Well this was just downright scary. I was writing my first blog and was making a reference to Fidel Castro, when I read your comment on Cuba.
ReplyDeleteCould you link me your blog? I think my e-mail shows in my blog profile.